About gall stones

16 responses so far ↓

• 1 Aisha Bird // Jun 30, 2005 at 12:52 am

  Susie,
  Post-surgey problems are very rare, 5&. The majority of problems
  isn’t even diarrhea but a stone left over in a duct from before the
  surgery.
  Avoiding flying on airplanes because there may be terrorist on board
  is not reasonable. Taking the chance is not as risky as it seems just
  because we have seen planes crashing into buildings.
  All those rare problems that you have stated are in good faith but
  living with constant gb colic is not a good problem to have either.
  Everyone must decide which is the ‘lesser of the two evils’ in order
  to be healthy and happy. Good luck to you.
  Barry.

• 2 Jeffrey Weaver // Jun 30, 2005 at 4:23 am

  Okay I’m sorry but for those of us that are having problems since
  we’ve had our gallbladder out, I for one don’t like it said
  that “well you’re the small percentage so that’s not bad” well for us
  IT IS BAD. I don’t like my life style being all screwed up because I
  thought I was making the right choice. You try living in my shoes and
  raising 3 children, not being able to be the mother you want because
  of a “simple” surgery. If you can’t do the darn surgery right than
  you shouldn’t be allowed to do it.
  I’m sick of hearing well only 5% of post surgery’s have that problem.
  Where is this info comming from anyways the Medical field. Do you
  think that my problems were reported. NO they were not. My Dr.
  Refused to connect them to the surgery and had the audasity to say I
  needed to go to another dr cause it had nothing to do with surgery.
  Yet I didn’t have the pain till after surgery.
  So honestly how much percentage do you think is truly reported. Dr.s
  
  do have to cover their butts you know. If the percentages were higher
  do you think as many people would get it done? I have spent years
  studying vaccines and it has been proven that only 10% of bad
  reactions are truly reported. If every bad reaction was reported do
  you think parents would continue to Vax?
  Just another side of the coin to think about. As for me I don’t care
  if I’m “your” 5% it has made life incredibly a pain in the … well
  you get the idea. Sorry Dale(if your still the moderator) for getting
  so nasty in this post but I’m so sick of others justifying us 5%. I
  wish I could have stuck it out like you did. At least you tried to
  help us get through it and that I’ll be forever grateful for.
  D

• 3 babette400 // Jun 30, 2005 at 11:05 am

  Post-surgey problems are very rare, 5&. The majority of problems
  I agree! When someone’s that little, bitty 5 percent, then it’s serious
  because they’re experiencing it themselves — upfront and personal.
  Plus, I can only speak of my experience in doing my survey before
  contemplating GB surgery. I spoke to four people, no one had a happy
  experience. Only one had the major surgery thingie because they had a
  scar-tissue buildup from previous abdominal surgery, so she had to have the
  major surgery. She was one of the one’s not happy. These are the only
  people that I’ve known in my immediate area as friends who’ve had surgery.
  Now, the only positive surgery out of all of these was a woman who talked to
  my husband. She had a positive surgery effect.
  Next, I weighed my survey out with two friends who’ve been doing the cleanse
  for over 10 years. They are like me, doing cleanses still at this time and
  having no problems whatsoever. So regardless what Barry says, I still hold
  to what I searched out for myself. If it wasn’t possible for him to hold
  
  out, then that doesn’t mean it’s not for others. I’ve had serious GB attacks
  also, as so has Dale and many, many others, including my friends who are
  still doing this. So I place hope in the fact that maybe it’s possible that
  I can live with my GB.
  Barry and I look at “freedom” in different ways. It makes no sense to me at
  all. If someone wants to say “freedom to eat anything,” then why not eat a
  rat or something? That’s just not my cup of tea, so to speak.
  I’m glad that he’s doing well, but maybe if he had had positive results, then
  he would have a different mindset.
  Susie

• 4 Aisha Bird // Jun 30, 2005 at 8:36 pm

  D,
  Once again, I am very sorry to hear that you are of the 5% of the
  people that have post-surgery problems. I personally know 10 people,
  myself included, who don’t have any problems at all. I’m sure that
  everyone feels sorry for you but to give justice to the results of
  post-surgery we need to realize that most people don’t have any
  problems.
  In the cases where people have to get surgery, to say that many
  problems will arise will only scare people into thinking everyone has
  problems. This isn’t fair for people who need to have the surgery and
  then get depressed reading a story like yours because you are of the
  minority.
  What are you doing to correct your problems? That may help someone if
  you had solutions instead of just saying that ‘you shouldn’t have’.
  Are you taking any kind of supplements or anything to correct your
  
  problems?
  Good luck to you and I hope you get healthy and happy soon.
  Barry.

• 5 Aisha Bird // Jul 1, 2005 at 4:29 am

  Susie,
  For me, in my case, it turned out to be the ‘lesser of the two evils’
  if you will.
  I was living with colic attacks 2 to 3 times a week, lost 15 lbs by
  flushing and was down to 155 lbs, and didn’t like the thought of
  having to flush forever to hide the pain with a coating of oil. My
  stone just didn’t come out because it was too big and hard.
  The surgery was needed because it turned out that my gb was in a pre-
  diseased state and would have only produced more stones no matter
  what my dieting was like because of genetics and condition of the gb.
  I am one of those who has had surgery with no problems once so ever
  so please add me to your list. Also, my brother, father, grandfather
  and grandmother. Now you have 5 more people for your list of post-
  surgery success.
  We all make choices to be healthy and happy. It’s a personal thing
  
  but we are all in here looking for that goal. Control your pain and
  keep your gb if it makes you happy. Nothing wrong with that. Flush
  every two weeks. Enjoy. Flush to your hearts content. If it works for
  you do it.
  For me, the pain became unbearable and the surgery was needed. I
  didn’t ‘give up’, I did what I had to do to be healthy and happy. I
  hope you are doing the same. Good luck.
  If the flush got out my gallstone and the pain with it I definitely
  would have keep my gb but it didn’t work for me. Removing the pain
  was my primary goal. Now that I’vd had it out without problems I can
  see that I was making a big deal about it. Just thinking about
  flushing for 10 years would make me do the operation all over again.
  My freedom to not eat rats is just as good as to eat rats. I choose
  not too. I also choose not to drink olive oil every two weeks with ES
  also. I choose to eat whatever I want at anytime without gallstone
  pain. I’m sure you would want to have that freedom as well but you
  have chosen what will make you happy. I still have the freedom to
  drink oil but I don’t have the pain to deal with anymore.
  Barry.

• 6 Opal Lurline // Jul 2, 2005 at 2:37 am

  IT is Susie’s thughts that keep me plugging forward inspite of all
  the pain. I know everyone thinks I am crazy for going on this way. I
  may have pain, but I am still in control of my health. As soon as I
  submit to surgery, it is out of my hands. Dawn
  BTW, SUsie, would you mind reporting what your complications are.

• 7 Aisha Bird // Jul 2, 2005 at 8:06 am

  Dawn,
  Submitting to surgery doesn’t mean that your health and happiness
  is ‘out of your hands’. It may be what you really need for health and
  happiness. If you had a lung with cancer and the doctors had to
  remove it would you consider that to be out of your hands as well?
  Being worried by Susie’s results is like worrying about flying
  because of terrorist. It is very rare in both cases.
  Good luck with your pain. Do what you need to do. Try everything to
  keep your gb but don’t feel ‘ashamed’ if it has to go.
  Barry.

• 8 Opal Lurline // Jul 2, 2005 at 10:30 am

  Barry, what I mean is, I can choose the surgery (or not), but I
  cannot choose the consequences. It will be out of my hands when the
  dial is spun whether I will land in the 95% zone or the 5% no man’s
  land. Dawn

• 9 Aisha Bird // Jul 2, 2005 at 3:59 pm

  Exactly,
  And one day you will decide if living with the pain is better than
  that spin. The lesser of two evils.
  You should really study the Internet for post-surgery information (if
  that is the opinion that you are considering) and don’t just rely on
  what you read in a gallbladder flush group. It may be biased here one
  way or another. That may help you decide to spin or not.
  All I can say is that the ’scare-tactics’ that you read about in here
  is only a small minority that is obviously biased toward the flushing
  instead of realities that the flush doesn’t always work and that
  there really is life after surgery. You will read a lot about doctor
  bashing and post-surgery horror stories in here and miss the other
  side of the coin. Ask your friends, family, neighbors, etc who have
  had the surgery and see what they tell you first hand.
  From what I have read (and don’t take my word for it without personal
  
  study) the majority of post-surgery problems is a stone left in the
  common duct.
  Next and even rarer is diarrhea. And that is only in the time that
  your body is adjusting the cholesterol levels to function without the
  gb. This could be one week to one month usually. Anything longer is
  even more rare. Also, supplements can be taken temperarily while your
  body adjusts.
  Even rarier is a nicked duct. Making sure you have a specialist who
  has done over 100 surgeries will lessen this .001% risk.
  All of these risks are so rare you shouldn’t base the surgery on
  them.
  For me the pain far out weighed the risk but that is only in my
  personal case. You should do everything you can first to avoid any
  kind of surgery but just feel assured that if you have to remove the
  gb it is not a major operation. Take that from someone who knows.
  Barry.

• 10 Jeffrey Weaver // Jul 2, 2005 at 7:30 pm

  (if that is the opinion that you are considering) and don’t just rely
  on what you read in a gallbladder flush group. It may be biased here
  one way or another. That may help you decide to spin or not.
  here is only a small minority that is obviously biased toward the
  flushing instead of realities that the flush doesn’t always work and
  that there really is life after surgery.
  I understood this list was supposed to be for those that wanted to do
  everything they could first to save their gallbaldder without medical
  means. From the intro of the list it sounds like it’s for those of us
  looking for natural treatments vs medical so maybe that is why it is
  bias.
  There is nothing wrong with getting your gallbladder out but others
  should know that not everyone has a good experience with it.
  D

• 11 Jeffrey Weaver // Jul 3, 2005 at 7:20 am

  — In gallstones@y…, “D B” <fairyflight@h…
  Thanks Debra. I can tell your sincer. I think you had a much better
  and carring Dr. But we get what we can I guess. I’m grateful that
  they were able to work it out cause we didn’t have and still don’t
  have insurance. We almost didn’t get that part taken care of either
  cause of the Dr and his pride. He tride to tell me that the pain had
  nothing to do with the surgery even though I had never in my life
  had that pain until after I came out of surgery. He didn’t want to
  sign the incompasitate form cause he said “how would it look on him”
  But we finally got him to fill it out so I qualified to get the bill
  paid for. It was for me being incompasitated for at least 5 weeks. My
  friends thought I had had a C-section. It was the Keyhole one though
  D

• 12 Aisha Bird // Jul 3, 2005 at 11:42 am

  D,
  If you found out a year before opting for surgery about the flushing
  method why didn’t you have the means to do more and attempt to save
  yourself from the operation?
  Also about the herbs. From all the testimonies in here and in the
  flush site testimonies no herbs have been found to reduce the size of
  a hardened gallstone. One guy did say that Chanca Piedra reduced his
  2.9 cm gallstone down to 2.1 cm in 6 months but after talking with
  him through personal email he didn’t really know or have ultrasound
  to verify that. What’s the name of that herb again?
  I drank tons of apple juice but never the chinese herbs because it
  isn’t available to me here and I haven’t heard any success stories to
  back them up for gallstone reduction. Actigal would probably work
  just as well for cholesterol hardened stones but it could take a year
  and any herb or medication you take doesn’t stop the stones from
  
  returning in 50% of the cases unless you continue on the treatment
  for life. Dieting will not reduce a gallstone or prevent future
  stones from forming. Dieting can slow down the process but they will
  still return in 50% of the cases.
  By the way, maybe you wouldn’t have been successful in removing that
  hard gallstone with a flush as well. Have you thought of that? Or
  that they wouldn’t have came back unless you were flushing every two
  weeks for life. Nevertheless you are gallbladderless now and need to
  continue looking for answers from here forward to be healthy and
  happy without it. Instead of harping on the past ‘mistake’ that you
  feel you have made maybe the liver cleanse will help you with your
  immune system. I’d be interesting in hearing those results when you
  reach them.
  Good luck in your search.
  Barry.

• 13 Jeffrey Weaver // Jul 3, 2005 at 11:06 pm

  There are some things you just can’t do while pregnant and one of
  them is the flushing.

• 14 Nell Paul // Jul 5, 2005 at 5:21 am

  I agree 100% with Debra on this.
  One thing is to choose to eat healthy, very different thing is to be forced
  into it.
  Just the fact that you are forced (by fear of pain) to choose what you are
  eating can cause many other health troubles.
  If you can be happy, that is the only way to be healthy.
  If you are unhappy with your pain, and if you have tried alternatives and
  it doesn’t help, then surgery (suppose you are lucky enough so that it
  doesn’t cause some other problems ) is much better solution then suffering.
  But, as surgery do carry a risk of some other (irreparable) problems, every
  person will have to follow his/her gut feeling …
  The best is, if you can manage you problems with alternatives.
  (there are also other alternatives, rarely discussed here …)
  If you can not, then you just have to choose what you think can be better …
  You said it all !
  
  Sometimes, surgery can promote vibrant health!
  Agnes

• 15 Nell Paul // Jul 5, 2005 at 1:14 pm

  Barry, there are people who live pain-free life (happy life, no fear of
  food) thanks to herbs or enema (coffee) or Chinese medicine, or
  homeopathic medicine, … or acupuncture or ayurveda … or massage …. or
  reflexotherapy … or chiropractic ….
  All those forms of medicine have been deliberately suppressed by AMA, ADA,
  FDA, NIH, CDC, … read and learn, if you don’t believe …
  And, if those people still have gallstones or not is NOT important.
  Happiness is the only important fact!
  For example … We all have cancer, but until we get diagnoses, we can be
  perfectly happy!
  Cancer happens every day inside our body. It is a natural program …
  BUT lucky we, no one is able to diagnose it … still!
  Cancer doesn’t kill … fear does!
  Happiness is the most important aim!
  What is important is that herbs can be antiinflammatory, can be
  
  antispasmodic, can be gallbladder healing … and can … and have been
  helping to millions …
  What do you think, what have people been doing last 1 000 000 years when
  having gallbladder problem? Surgery? Actigal? Infra-sound waves? NO.
  (Of course, there were not as many with that problem as today, but still,
  there were people …. )
  Just the fact that some people have possibility to use surgery to solve (or
  create) problem is great, but no one educated and informed person would
  ever agree that more then 10% of all gallbladder surgeries are necessary!
  500 000 surgeries a year (USA). Most likely, only 50 000 were “necessary”,
  450 000 could have been solved with herbal medicine and/or flushing and/or
  homeopathic medicine and/or acupuncture and7or some other form of
  traditional therapy …
  (And, if people were not vaccinated and treated with pesticides,
  medications and antibiotics, most likely only 5000 would be necessary …
  but that is another story …)
  It is great that surgery technology is available to people today. BUT it is
  not great to misuse it for the sake of profit!
  And, just because we are here talking about alternatives to surgery, no one
  argues with the fact that in YOUR PARTICULAR CASE … flush did not work.
  We have seen it, we know it …
  We still don’t know if some other therapy that you didn’t try would have
  been working … but we do know that your surgery have been successful and
  have made you happy man again! For you that was a perfect solution!
  And that is the most important for you!
  To be happy!
  Also, it is important to understand that stone (hard one) that your
  gallbladder was able to form, have been formed through long time.
  It was not 2 days job.
  For long time your gallbladder was holding sludge, before it condensed some
  part of that sludge into one big stone, and other particles have been
  formed into many other small stones.
  It takes years for a shell to form one pearl. And. you know what pearl is
  formed from ? Protein and calcium!
  If you have been lucky enough to know about flush, you could have flushed
  your sludge before it ever become so hard, and so big …
  But, now, that you have the experience, you could think that for your own
  kids, it would be better to do one flush every 12 months, then to come to
  the point (point you reached in your very own experience ) where flush
  was unable to help ….
  Flush is still the most simple solution - prevention … all other (herbal
  … enema … homeopathic … diet … are far more complicated )
  Flush is a thousand year old remedy.
  I will never understand why people are ready to take a medication that have
  been on the market for 5 - 20 years, but are afraid to drink olive oil and
  juice that have been natural part of human diet for several thousand of
  years … ? Can you tell me why?
  And, In your shoes, it is possible that I myself would also opt for
  surgery … sooner or later … pain, if it can be avoided …. can make
  people take their chances!
  Every person is different .. and it is important to distinguish between
  your personal experience and more objective experience based on hundreds of
  people (like mine) … or even more objective experience (like Hulda Clark,
  or Dr.Lewis, or Dr.Schulze, and others … ) based on thousands of people …
  Stones that people flush can be of any density!
  From those that are just little-bit harder then bile itself (density 5 -
  10) , to those that are calcified and hard as glass.
  We could say that if bile density is 1 on the scale of 100 and glass is 100
  on that same scale, then stones could be of any density 2 to 99.
  Your experience have been to flush some hard out (density 20 to 50), and
  many soft ones (density 5-10).
  Your surgery got out one “big” & hard stone (most likely of mixed
  composition (cholesterol + pigment + protein + calcium carbonate)) that
  would on the same scale be somewhere around 50 -75.
  But, even “pure” cholesterol stones (stones where cholesterol is 95% of it
  content) can be “relatively hard” (20 - 40) and stable.
  I have seen “hard” cholesterol stones(density 20 or 25) (green, almost
  transparent) that did not melt.
  Melting is most likely caused by bacterial action. (based on deductive -
  logical thinking, not on actual hard proof)
  If you take few cholesterol stones from the same person, wash them in the
  cold water, and dry them on the sun and leave them exposed to the direct
  sun, many stones will dry and will not decompose into waxy liquid.
  But, if you take other stones from the same person, without washing them,
  and leave them on room temperature, not exposed to sun light, most of them
  will decompose ….
  That is the proof that there must be some bacteria, aerobic bacteria, that
  is involved into stone decomposition.
  Sunlight is known bacteria killer. If you take a cup of water, “polluted”
  with bacteria, and you leave it on the sun, after few hours, water is
  bacteriologically clean. No living bacteria! If you have a Microscope, you
  can try it … test it … many biologists can testify to this experiment.
  Now, if you mix waxy liquid from decomposed stones with dry stones that
  have been for many days outside, on the sun, those hard and dry
  cholesterol stones will decompose! That is almost 90% proof that bacteria
  is at the root of the decomposition!
  Most likely, some airborne bacteria, or bacteria from intestines, … that
  behave different in aerobic environment.
  No gallstone, as far as I know, is decomposed inside bowel.
  People have been passing stones several days/weeks after flush, stones that
  have been stuck inside bowel for several days, still unable to decompose
  there …
  (but, those that do decompose will never be discovered …. as they will be
  mixed with feces)
  I hope this helps you understand that every person is different, and that
  nobody in this group accuse you for being a coward because you opted for
  surgery.
  Most people, would do the same …
  But, that doesn’t mean that most people flush soft balls of cholesterol.
  It was your experience, and it was experience of few other people, but
  even you flushed some stones that have been harder!
  EVERY STONE IS DIFFERENT!
  EVERY PERSON IS DIFFERENT! Do NOT “EXTRAPOLATE” YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE on
  OTHER PEOPLE!
  In the discursion Barry - Dale … both of you have been talking about
  DIFFERENT stones.
  Bare that in mind!
  DIFFERENT!
  And, it is important to be aware, that even soft balls of cholesterol can
  obstruct bile flow inside bile ducts!
  No matter how soft, if it is a ball, it is a ball! It is solid enough to
  obstruct!
  Most people flush “hard balls of bile” (relatively “hard” cholesterol
  stones (20 -25 - 30 on the scale)), balls that can be preserved by
  washing, and exposing to sun light!
  Those stones can still be crushed by fingers (just like you could crush
  beeswax) but, if not exposed to mechanical pressure, those balls can last
  for years (it is usually stinky)
  So, let finish assumptions that “YOUR” stones are the same as “MINE” stones
  and that “MY” experience and “MY” conclusions are the “ONLY TRUTH”.
  As many people, that many “truths”!
  Agnes

• 16 Alonzo Yadira // Jul 8, 2005 at 7:34 am

  Yes, I agree Agnes.
  My advise is to try alternative methods first before opting for an
  irriversible surgery.
  For some people this will help them to avoid surgery. For others, it
  was worth a try to go the alternative rout.
  I wish success to all in their methods to improve their health.
  Suzanne

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