About gall stones

22 responses so far ↓

• 1 Rodolfo Lorenza // May 31, 2005 at 8:25 am

  =========Start of Material Being Replied to========
  Fascinating. Is that the amount of mercury in your fillings? In your
  oral cavity? In the atmosphere?
  What was the rate of release of mercury? How long would it take for ALL
  the mercury to be released? And then would you become healthy?
  What equipment did you use for the measurement? When had it last been
  calibrated?

• 2 eddy600 // May 31, 2005 at 4:58 pm

  “…..the half life in the body is something like 20 years. plus it lodges in
  nerve tissue and other organs and glands. for some people, it just doesn’t go
  away unless you actively remove it……”
  Eat garlic, it removes it!
  Jay

• 3 Rodolfo Lorenza // Jun 4, 2005 at 10:52 pm

  “V. Richter” <new_man85@…
  I resent the implication, so I guess that cancels out the
  compliment. Just to clarify, I wish to obtain facts; that is my only
  objective on this subject. It beats me why you feel that you must engage
  in personal attacks.
  I wish you good health and forgive you for the uncalled-for comments.
  Do miners monitor their oral cavities? At first glance, it might appear
  that your licensed dentist is not using the right tool for the job. How
  does he justify this?
  If you know that, then you certainly can reveal the facts. When does the
  manufacturer recommend calibration, and when did your licensed dentist
  last calibrate the instrument before he made the measurement to which you
  refer?
  Details, please. When should it be calibrated, and when *was* it
  calibrated? At a certified laboratory? Which one? Traceable to the
  
  National Bureau of Standards, as the manufacturer recommends?
  But the *interesting* limit ought to be the quantity in your oral cavity,
  which in absolute terms is minuscule compared to the amount of mercury in
  the air.
  Now you’ve got me confused. When I breathe in, the air goes into my
  lungs, not into my digestive system. To what extent is the inhaled
  mercury (don’t forget that it is not elemental mercury, but rather a very
  stable form as part of the amalgam) soluble in your saliva?
  I can indeed do simple math, but I don’t have the information that I
  would need. Can you help?
  That’s rather an egocentric analysis of what “everyone else” wants. I
  should think that they are less interested in what tipped the scale for
  Vince, and more interested in what the potential dangers are in
  amalgamized mercury. And perhaps more to the point, to what extent the
  danger increases as part of the process of *removing* the mercury. By
  how many orders of magnitude the mercury concentration in one’s oral
  cavity increases when the filling are being removed.
  Not “presented by the establishment,” but rather presented with rigor and
  thoroughness. I’m sorry to say that although you have made an attempt,
  you leave more questions unanswered than answered seriously.
  It did help me, as you see. I am looking forward to a more serious
  reply, which would address the real issues. I have a feeling that you
  could do so if you really want to.
  My best wishes for your good health.

• 4 Rodolfo Lorenza // Jun 5, 2005 at 6:35 pm

  Arthur, rather than assign tasks, we would appreciate your providing the
  information. This might give us the tools to judge the validity of your
  claim.
  Are you saying that 20 years after you have your fillings removed, 50
  percent of the mercury is still in your body? That is amazing! Can you
  offer some documentation?
  Does this also apply to the amount of mercury in thimerosol that is used
  in childhood vaccinations? If not, why not?
  Where can I find this scientific treatise? The title is unlike that of
  any other scientific work I have ever read or heard of.
  My best wishes for your good health.

• 5 Ali Shannan // Jun 6, 2005 at 1:06 am

  if you don’t believe mercury is bad, then break open a thermometer and have a
  party with your kids.
  i’ll come to visit your family in the asylum.
  if you do, like me, then here is the info i have come up with
  try andy cutler’s chelation protocol. i’ve done about 15 rounds with alpha
  lipoic acid. and one round with dmsa and ala. had a slightly different feeling
  with the dmsa. i’ve read about cilantro, but alot of people claim it is
  dangerous if you don’t use it properly. susan weed recommends burdock root tea
  and eating sea vegetables. aajonus vonderplanitz recommends eating berries with
  raw cream or homemade coconut cream, small amounts of squash juice, and raw
  shellfish like clams and oysters. his theory is that these shellfish store
  mercury in the shells and not the flesh. my own theory is that these liver
  flushes help deal with mercury. it is possible that some the stones form around
  metal. i’ve never had this tested… justa a hunch. if not then they make you
  less allergic to food and able to process or produce the glutathione precursors.
  
  there is a guy on oxyplus who claims that immunocal has taken care of some
  people’s mercury problems. and there is a woman on cyberspace lluana lei who
  claims that bentonite baths will draw out metals through the skin. i am assuming
  i am mercury toxic since i fit the profile to a tee, and do respond to andy
  cutler’s protocol. but i am looking for better ways to do it since it is
  difficult. and then there are the myriad ways in which mercury toxicity can
  manifest. all the problems it has created must be addressed. i find eating raw
  foods has been of great help. much better than supplements. since mercury
  possibly interferes with enzyme production. a little raw food goes a long way.
  some people claim that ozone will detoxify mercury, but i don’t believe this.
  perhaps it gets your body working better and thus better able to detoxify it on
  its own.
  1 week after a had my amalgams replaced i started passing 3 foot parasites.
  coincidence?
  there is also the theory that if a person is both mercury toxic and has taken
  antibiotics for a long term then this methylates the mercury and makes it orders
  of magnitudes deadlier. i fit into this category having been on antibiotics for
  9 months on college.
  i try to keep an open mind about things though. and not concentrate on evil
  substances, but rather what i can do to feel well. for a long time i thought
  parasites were the cause of my illness, now i don’t think so. so i have learned
  a good lesson there. and who knows what lessons lay in the waiting. i know when
  i feel good and i know when i feel bad. i try to find relationships in the
  things i do, think, or ingest, to see if i feel better or worse as a result.
  dogmas more often than not sem to fail. for example, why do we need to do liver
  cleanses, and some people don’t? what causes bile stagnation? has anyone had the
  liver stones analyzed for heavy metal?

• 6 Ali Shannan // Jun 6, 2005 at 5:02 am

  i haven’t done this test. i don’t believe in the accuracy of tests anymore. i
  just try things and see how i feel. i feel something happening when i take the
  alpha lipoic acid every three hours, so i will assume that i am mercury toxic. i
  tried immunocal a few years ago, and didn’t feel like anything was happening. i
  tried raw milk last year and definitely noticed something going on. i feel that
  raw foods are more powerful than supplements. i do feel some positive benefit
  from the squash juice but i haven’t been doing it recently. i haven’t done the
  clay baths yet. it’s been on the back of my mind, but haven’t been drawn to it.
  as far as glutathione goes, my intuition is that there are lots of ways to
  accomplish this.

• 7 Rodolfo Lorenza // Jun 7, 2005 at 10:02 am

  Come on, Vince. You know that either the instrument was not suitable for
  the task, or it had not been calibrated recently; more likely both.
  Am I right? What does that say about the measurements?

• 8 Rodolfo Lorenza // Jun 7, 2005 at 9:52 pm

  Because our mutual friend, Arthur Luckower, made such a claim. You can’t
  just make claims if they have no basis. So I repeat my questions to him
  or to you, for that matter:
  “Are you saying that 20 years after you have your fillings removed, 50
  percent of the mercury is still in your body? That is amazing! Can you
  offer some documentation?
  “Does this also apply to the amount of mercury in thimerosol that is used
  in childhood vaccinations? If not, why not?
  No. I was asking for the source for such a startling claim. “What my
  dentist knows” is not a source by which you can prove a point.
  No. It is just a sign of the serious scientific approach that this
  well-know scholar takes.
  I wish that I could *offer* good health. Sorry, but the best I can do is
  wish someone good health.
  What I don’t understand is why the moderators permit these personal
  
  attacks to be disseminated. I would hope that in the future, if anyone
  feels the deep personal need to be nasty, at least do it off-line, in a
  private email.
  You are a real sweetheart.
  I, on the other hand, have encountered statements that are new to me, and
  I would like to know their sources, if any.
  Once again, I am only slightly offended by such attacks, but I do wish
  that the moderators paid attention to them and spared the rest of the
  readers.

• 9 Nell Paul // Jun 8, 2005 at 6:28 am

  Ira, we may disagree on some subjects,
  but I do agree with you on this one.
  Personal attacks do not belong here, as this group is suppose to be a
  support group, not a group for political debate!
  Very often people do disagree on many subjects, but that is not the reason
  for attacking them.
  We can’t all be identical, and we can’t all think the same way.
  Please, I urge all of members to avoid posting unsupportive messages, and
  to accept that every member of this group may have different opinion on
  many subjects, opinion that sometimes is or is not a mainstream of the
  group. Tolerance …
  And Ira, it would also help a lot if you would let people have their
  beliefs without always provoking reaction and asking for the facts or for
  the proof of their opinion or statements, because that is the perfect way
  to provoke a personal attack.
  
  So, in case of this conflict, I say 50:50. Both sides were responsible.
  In reality, the producers and pushers of amalgam should be the one to
  provide facts that amalgam is safe, rather then the sick people.
  But there are very many people today questioning safety, while there is not
  enough independent research that have established levels of safety.
  Amalgam have become a political question, and just as any other political
  question, you can just say good buy to unbiased science.
  I still have 2 fillings with amalgam in my mouth. I am healthy and I don’t
  rush to replace them. But, once upon a time, it was 7 fillings, and for the
  last 10 years I just made sure that all new fillings and all replacements
  are ceramic (Cerec), but 2 are still left.
  If you are a healthy person, and if you have few amalgams, do not rush to
  replace them, until you really have to.
  But, if you do suffer any symptoms of chronic mercury poisoning, (and some
  people suffering from MS, CFS, MCS, Cancer, Aids, Arthritis, FMS,
  candidiasis, Leaky gut … do have quite many of those symptoms), then you
  better make sure you learn as much as possible about amalgam and about
  Amalgam Replacement Protocol, and about alternative materials, before you
  start messing around with your fillings. Most people who made many
  replacements in a short time, faced a period of worst health, period that
  sometimes lasted for a years,… long enough to kill someone already dying
  from Cancer, Aids, CFS, MS,….
  If you happened to be dying from Cancer, Aids, CFS, Psoriasis, MS, ….
  then Hulda’s suggestion to extract the whole teeth instead of drilling the
  toxic filling (… beside doing 50 other things) could be a good idea to
  possibly earn few more days or months or years/decades of life (… beside
  doing 50 other things).
  But, no one can give you a guaranty that it will save your life, just like
  no one can give you a guaranty that 10 flushes will solve gallbladder
  problem, though there are people who were fortunate enough to solve their
  pain with few flushes.
  Every person is different, and science based on statistics can not take
  care of individual sensitivity.
  That is why asking for the science is not always the best way to go.
  best of health
  Agnes

• 10 Rodolfo Lorenza // Jun 9, 2005 at 1:28 am

  Arthur, I love your style.
  I hope that you are aware of the difference between elemental mercury,
  which is indeed “bad,” and an amalgam containing mercury, in which the
  mercury is very stable and not nearly so “bad.”
  I would suggest that it would be worth your while to get at least this
  fact clear in your mind before you take major steps in changing your
  lifestyle.

• 11 Rodolfo Lorenza // Jun 9, 2005 at 5:25 am

  Here’s an interesting analogy.
  The weatherman uses a barometer to measure the air pressure in the
  environment.
  I would like to take his instrument and measure the air pressure in my
  tires.
  What value would such a measurement have?
  Now, substitute “mine meter” for barometer, mercury concentration for air
  pressure, and mouth for tire.
  Perhaps I have now clarified why the measurement that you have made is
  not relevant.
  If my view needs further clarification, I’d be glad to try again.
  Otherwise, my questions about your measurement are still valid and have
  not been answered.
  Simply because it is obvious that your measurements are made with an
  uncalibrated, unidentified instrument that appears to be unsuitable for
  
  the job.

• 12 Ali Shannan // Jun 9, 2005 at 11:56 am

  here’s a quote from andy cutler
  The usual terminology:
  liquid mercury and its vapor - the cool silvery looking stuff - is metallic
  mercury.
  The form of mercury in your amalgam fillings is metallic mercury. Amalgam
  mercury both evaporates to be inhaled and is also corroded to form inorganic
  mercury which is swallowed.
  Metallic mercury evaporates readily, the vapors are absorbed into the
  bloodstream and carried all over the body, and they pass the blood brain
  barrier easily. Once in the body they are oxidized in a few seconds into the
  mercuric form of inorganic mercury. This makes the vapors just as dangerous
  as organic mercury.
  Organic mercury is in the form of a mercury ion (inorganic mercury) with an
  organic group stuck onto it. Such as the ethyl group in ethylmercuric
  thiosalicylate, trade name Thimerosal or Merthiolate. Your body slowly
  
  converts organic mercury to inorganic mercury. The half life of
  methlymercury is 44 days - mostly it is converted to inorganic mercury in
  your body before it is excreted. Organic mercury crosses the blood brain
  barrier easily.
  Inorganic mercury has 2 forms. One of these, mercurous mercury, isn’t very
  important since it isn’t stable in your body. It is also very poorly aborbed
  from the intestinal tract. Old laxatives used to contain it in the form of
  calomel (Hg2Cl2). Rarely, people who took calomel laxatives daily for
  decades would get mercury poisoning.
  The important form of inorganic mercury for our discussion is mercuric
  mercury, Hg++. This is stable in your body. The organic and metallic
  mercury that get into your brain and are oxidized there are turned into this
  form of mercury. Since inorganic mercury does not cross the blood brain
  barrier at all well, this means that once the metallic or organic mercury
  gets into your brain and is oxidized there it doesn’t come out. Inorganic
  mercuric mercury doesn’t evaporate and is not very well absorbed from the
  intestine - maybe 10%. Thus it is considered less toxic than metallic or
  organic mercury, but more toxic than mercurous mercury.
  Mercurochrome contains inorganic mercury.
  All forms of mercury are absorbed reasonably well through the skin. Organic
  mercury being very well absorbed.
  The inorganic mercuric mercury is what does the actual damage - it is an
  oxidation catalyst. Organic mercury is innocuous as long as it is organic.
  The damage happens when it is turned into inorganic mercury. This is why
  people who get organic mercury poisoning don’t show symptoms right away. It
  is also why fish can have enough mercury in them to poison people but be
  perfectly healthy themselves. Fish turn inorganic mercury into organic
  mercury and thus passivate it. Mammals don’t turn inorganic mercury into
  organic mercury - we go the other way.
  also from andy cutler…
  Al-Shahristani H. and Shihab K. (1974) Variation in biological half-life of
  methylmercury in man. Arch. Environ. Hlth 28: 342-344.
  Smith J C, et al. (994) The kinetics of intravenously administered methyl
  mercury in man Tox. Appl. Pharmacol. 128: 251-6.
  Tons of papers on half life of regular mercury here, or exposure to it.
  Aposhian HV, Bruce DC, Alter W, Dart R, Hurlbut KM, and Aposhian MM.
  (1992) Urinary mercury after administration of
  2,3-dimercaptopropane-1-sulfonic acid: correlation with dental amalgam score.
  FASEB J. 6: 2472-2476.
  Barregård L, Sällsten G, and Järvholm B. (1995) People with high
  mercury uptake from their own dental amalgam fillings. Occ. Environ. Med. 52
  : 124-8.
  Bjorkman L, Sandborg-Englund G, and Ekstand J. (1997) Mercury in saliva
  and feces after removal of amalgam fillings. Toxicol. Appl. Pharmacol. 144;
  156-62.
  Roels H, Boeckx M, Ceulemans E and Lauwerys R. (1991) Urinary
  excretion of mercury after occupational exposure to mercury vapour and
  influence of the chelating agent meso-2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA). Bri
  t . J. Ind. Med. 48: 247-253.
  Begerow J, Zander D, Freier I, and Dunemann L. (1994) Long-term
  mercury excretion in urine after removal of amalgam fillings. Int. Arch.
  Occ. Environ. Hlth. 66: 209-212.
  Effects of mercury on neurological stuff.
  Echeverria D, Heyer N, Martin M, Naleway, A, Woods J and Bittner
  A. (1995) Behavioral effects of low-level exposure to Hgo among dentists. Ne
  urotoxicol. Teratol. 17: 161-8.
  Kishi R, Doi R, Fukuchi Y, Satoh H, Satoh R, Ono A, Moriwaka F, Tashiro K,
  Takahata N, et al. (1993) Subjective Symptoms and Neurobehavioral
  Performances of Ex-Mercury Miners at an Average of 18 Years after the
  Cessation of Chronic Exposure to Mercury Vapor, Environmental Research 62
  289-302.
  Immune abberations are only controversial for MD’s since zero of them in the
  “mainstream” group appear capable of picking up their calculators and using
  the numbers and equations in references this paper cites to verifty that mice
  and rats have problems at the same blood concentrations of mercury that
  people get from what their pediatricians do to them.
  Eneström S, and Hultman P. (1995) Does amalgam affect the immune system? A
  controversial issue. Int. Arch. Allergy Immunol. 106: 180-203.
  Adenylate cyclase is the transducing enzyme for dopamine and other
  neurotransmitters that are known to not “work right” in autism and ADHD.
  Ritalin increases brain dopamine activity, for example. The effect seen in
  this paper is substantial at physiologically relevant concentrations.
  Ewers U, and Erbe R. (1980) Effects of Lead, Cadmium and Mercury on Brain
  Adenylate Cyclase. Toxicology 16: 227-237.
  Direct determinations of mercury and lead in hair of problem children shows
  they are related.
  Marlowe M, Errera J, Stellern J and Beck D (1983) Lead and mercury levels in
  emotionally disturbed children. Journal of Orthomolecular Psychiatry, 12:
  260-270.
  Marlowe M, Moon C, Errera J, Jacobs J, Brunson M, Stellern J and Schroeder
  C (1986) Low mercury levels and childhood intelligence. Journal of
  Orthomolecular Medicine, 1: 43-49.
  Direct determinations of mercury and lead in hair of sick people shows they
  are related. “Mentally” as well as physically sick, that is.
  Nakagawa R (1995) Concentration of mercury in hair of diseased people in
  Japan. Chemosphere 30: 135-40.
  Silberud RL, Motl J and Kienholtz E (1998) Psychometric evidence that dental
  amalgam mercury may be an etiologic factor in manic depression. Journal of
  Orthomolecular Medicine, 13: 31-40.
  The following is the article that got Health Canada started in the argument
  about whether to allow amalgam in children and pregnant women. Numbers don’t
  lie but MD’s don’t use numbers so they are not capable of reading this paper
  and realizing it is completely compelling and correct.
  Richardson GM, and Allan M. (1996) A Monte Carlo Assessment of Mercury
  Exposure and Risks from Dental Amalgam. Human and Ecological Risk Assessment,
  2: (4) 709-761.
  Yes, the mercurochrome etc is well absorbed. Nobody has dared do further
  studies since this one - which is too old to be in medline.
  Skog E, and Wahlberg J. (1964) A comparative investigation of the
  percutaneous absorption of metal compounds in the guinea pig by means of the
  radioactive isotopes: 51Cr, 58Co, 65Zn, 110mAg, 115mCd, 203Hg. J.
  Invest. Dermatol. 43: 187-92.
  end of quote.
  i’m not exactly sure how hg gets methylated in the body, but i think it has
  something to do with certain types of bacteria. so we might look at metallic
  mercury in a lab and see one thing, and then expose it to acid and bacteria in
  the mouth, then have a completely different substance. if you want to get into
  this you can join the autism-mercury list and go toe to toe with andy. he is a
  ph.d. biochemist.

• 13 Ali Shannan // Jun 10, 2005 at 3:42 am

  dale, i happen to agree with your point of view.
  but…
  ira’s right to argue his point is fine with me. i like a person who questions
  everything. this is how we arrive at truth. i was a doubting ira about the
  cleanses until i discovered that they were real. i also disagree with you about
  the relevance of the amalgam issue. if ira turns out to be right, then he has
  disproved a theory of mine. if he turns out to be wrong (most likely ),
  then he might be validating one of my implied theories… that mercury poisoning
  might be one of the factors that leads to the formation stones. either directly
  or indirectly. it has been my experience that the body works as a symphony.
  everything is interdependent. so far, no one has proved what is the exact cause
  for the formation of liver stones. until this is done, i will keep my my open to
  any cause that sounds reasonable to me.
  i don’t see ira’s questions as belligerent. just forthright. this is a needed
  perspective to keep the rest of us from self-indulgence. self-indulgence can
  
  lead one down the path of destruction just as easily as some buttered movie
  popcorn. ( i am semi-reformed self-indulgentist) i get the best of both worlds
  by following this philosophy.
  one of my mentors many years ago was a reformed ama bastard. dr. h.l. newbold.
  he was an ex-psychiatrist turned nutritionist. one of his books is used as a
  standard college text for psychology. later in life he became very ill with
  heart disease, and was close to death. he came to an epiphany while lying in the
  hospital, that his symptoms were identical to drug withdrawal. he turned out to
  be the forefather of all the atkins-like diets. he just never tried to be famous
  with it. but he cured countless people of disease using environmental medicine
  and diet. he often told me that he never thought he would wind up telling people
  how important cooking was. and he renounced 30 years of his previous psychiatric
  training because the results he achieved with his patients using nutrition was
  far superior. if anyone is interested, he has many books out on the subject. he
  was very much ahead of his time with regard to environmental medicine. i
  frequently heard stories about him curing people with the most unobvious
  methods. for example, a person with turrets syndrome was cured by changing the
  person’s sneakers. apparently the man was absorbing toxic fumes through the
  soles of his feet from the sneakers. it’s too bad that he didn’t know about the
  liver cleanses or amalgam poisoning. one of his favorite things to say to other
  doctors who pretended to understand how the human body worked was:’can you build
  a human being from scratch?’
  he came to an understanding of how the system worked later in life. that money
  and politics were more potent factors in medicine than the desire to undercover
  truths. sadly, i am forced to agree. i wish this weren’t the case.

• 14 babette400 // Jun 10, 2005 at 5:55 am

  ey, I’ve just had an idea :)) Why don’t you tell me what your thoughts
  about gallbladder flushing are, and I’ll tell you what mine are. Then, we
  can compare notes and both of us can learn more from each other. What do
  you say? I’v just done flush number 5, and have gotten what I consider good
  results. Have you done any flushes? Interested in doing any? Hesitant to
  do any? Let me know something and I’d be interested in discussing it with
  you :))
  Vince,
  You’ve just said a mouthful. What you’ve just said is what this group is
  supposed to be about anyway, a sharing of ideas about cleansings. If someone
  wants to constantly argue about a person’s success, why don’t they start
  their own group and hash it out there.
  Susie

• 15 Larry Gabriele // Jun 10, 2005 at 10:56 am

  Arthur, sorry for the misspelling of your name.
  Dale

• 16 eddy600 // Jun 11, 2005 at 5:25 am

  Amalgams, a recent experience.
  I’ve been watching the discussions on amalgams without commenting because I’m
  not convinced that there is a significant risk. But that’s just my opinion.
  Anyway, today I had a long visit at the University of Washington dental
  school with a student who has been doing a lot of work on my teeth. Today’s
  work was removing an amalgam, which will be replaced in 2 weeks with a gold
  cap, not a crown, and I don’t remember the exact term for this item. This
  student isn’t a “kid” - he’s at least 30 and has a lot of life experiences
  besides school, and I have a lot of respect for him and his work. He is
  meticulous, and he has made two crowns for me already.
  Today I mentioned that a Scandinavian country has outlawed amalgams and
  others have restricted their use, and he was aware of that. He said that the
  UofW position on them is the normal ADA position, that they are OK. However,
  he said that he himself will not use them when he sets up practice and has in
  fact replaced all of his own (3 or 4) with gold. He said that he believes
  
  that the official UofW position is the way it is because they have been used
  for so long that they are basically not willing to do a fair study on them.
  That’s his personal opinion, not an official statement.
  During this brief discussion on amalgams he pointed out that when they are
  worked on, or as in my case replaced, that there is an “explosion” of mercury
  that obviously transfers to the body, even with a rubber dam. The dust from
  drilling and more than likely the vaporization of mercury from the drilling
  heat cannot be kept away from inhalation or mixing with saliva. I wanted to
  make that point. If you do have amalgams removed, even the process of
  removal can give you a significant shot of mercury into your body - probably
  far beyond the level that “leeched” out since installation. As soon as I got
  home I juiced up a bunch of carrots along with a globe/head of garlic (12-15
  cloves) and drank it. Garlic has been found to eliminate mercury from the
  body at a ratio of 10 to 1, 10 parts garlic removes 1 part of mercury. I
  have been juicing with lots of garlic cloves the past few days anyway, so
  hopefully I protected myself before the work, and I’ll be juicing with garlic
  for many days to come in preparation for another flush.
  By the way, he mentioned that plastic non-metallic amalgam replacement has
  problems of its own. The plastic doesn’t last long and breaks up easily
  allowing for new decay. I’m going to have my remaining amalgams removed
  there, and will go the gold route, because my amalgams are very old. (Today
  he found decay under the amalgam that hadn’t shown up from either X-Rays or
  visual inspection.)
  Jay

• 17 maurice190 // Jun 11, 2005 at 3:40 pm

  Jay,
  Having been a dental assistant for over 9 years, I’m here to tell you
  that gold crowns/caps(same thing) can get decay under them too. And gold or
  any metal in the mouth has its problems too. A gold crown is not pure gold,
  pure gold is too soft so they have to mix the gold with other harder metals.
  Crowns are difficult to keep clean, especially if you drink sugary drinks,
  the sugar flows under the crown where it is seated on the tooth. Also in time
  the gum tissue around the crown will shrink away from the crown, and you can
  also get periodontal pockets around in the tissue around the crown. Also,
  many times the root under the crowned tooth can abcess, so it is a constant
  target for bacteria. You would be better off extrcting the tooth if your are
  concerned about your health. And by the way, we are way off target.
  Melissa W.
  `

• 18 Rodolfo Lorenza // Jun 11, 2005 at 8:32 pm

  Arthur Luckower” <aluckower@…
  That is rather inaccurate, I’m afraid. The mercury amalgam that you
  refer to contains an alloy of mercury, not elemental mercury.
  As such, the mercury in the amalgam is very stable and not nearly so
  dangerous as the mercury in a thermometer, for example.
  Please relay this to Mr. Cutler, with my best wishes.
  On a personal note, it’s becoming rather tiresome to rehash this point
  over and over again.

• 19 Ali Shannan // Jun 12, 2005 at 2:52 pm

  dear ira:
  like i said, you can hash this out with dr cutler if you are inclined. i have
  already read everything he has published. my sense is that you will be in way
  over your head. this will be a great learning experience for you. dr cutler is
  aware that amalgam fillings are an alloy. i’ve never encountered a single person
  who wasn’t aware of this. hence the word amalgam.
  also, you contradicted yourself. in a previous post you said that mercury from a
  thermometer wasn’t dangerous. now you are saying differently. and now are
  ascribing levels of danger to these various substances. how might one determine
  these different levels of danger. is this the ira jacobson mercury gradient
  scale? how much is dangerous for an autistic child, a cancer patient, a healthy
  person. please enlighten me.
  <<As such, the mercury in the amalgam is very stable
  maybe if you actually read my last post, you wouldn’t be mindlessly repeating
  ada rhetoric. amalgam outside of the mouth MIGHT be stable. but what happens
  
  when it is constantly exposed to acid and bacteria in the mouth?
  <<As such, the mercury in the amalgam is very stable and not nearly so
  dangerous as the mercury in a thermometer
  if you were at ground zero of a nuclear explosion, that would be far more
  dangerous than bathing every day in radioactively contaminated water.
  <<On a personal note, it’s becoming rather tiresome to rehash this point
  over and over again
  i agree. why don’t you take some of your own advice, and actually listen to what
  i am saying. then read one of the 10 or so articles i cited upon your request.
  then have a discussion with dr cutler on the autism-mercury list. then talk to
  some of the many parents who are reversing their children’s autism by following
  his protocol. saying that dr cutler is unaware that mercury fillings are an
  alloy is like a 4 year old pointing out to his parents that he can go potty all
  by himself. seems like your mind is already made up on the issue. that’s fine by
  me. ignorance is bliss. continue this debate with someone else

• 20 eddy600 // Jun 12, 2005 at 4:55 pm

  “…The bottom line: Don’t get amalgams removed by untrained dentists -
  dentists not trained in the proper removal by Hal Huggins methods.”
  I find that hard to swallow, literally. When only one person has the answers
  it sends up a huge stop sign to me. Behind each and every person who has THE
  answer for ANYTHING to the exclusion of others there lurks an ego larger than
  Everest - no matter what kind of a “kind” or “shy” facade they may exhibit.
  Scientists are still trying to get an accurate constant for the measurement
  of gravity, and still don’t have one. Each test they run produces a
  different result. (From a local newspaper article within the last year about
  experiments at the University of Washington.)
  Jay
  Eat garlic - it will cure more ills than all the potions of special interest
  and MLM groups combined. But it will never catch on because it can’t be
  patented and it is much too cheap. And if you really want to get healthy,
  chase it down with lemon juice and 100+ HU cayenne - again, much too simple
  
  for the complex people in this life.

• 21 Rodolfo Lorenza // Jun 13, 2005 at 8:02 am

  You leave me no choice but to conclude that the instrument that was used
  in your mouth is uncalibrated and therefore has no relevance to the
  science of metrology.
  As I had guessed and you have made clear by refusing to answer the
  questions I asked five (5) times.

• 22 Larry Gabriele // Jun 13, 2005 at 1:53 pm

  Debra;
  I can appreciate your desire to not offend anyone, including Ira. I don’t
  normally tend to find myself annoyed with people and will let a lot go by
  before saying or doing anything about whatever issue is at the forefront.
  However, I think this post from you certainly is a breath of fresh air. It
  just took a bit longer in your case to see what has been before a lot of us
  here for quite some time. But, I think you pretty much came to light with
  this statement;
  <<<<<<,No one has to prove anything to you here. You do not have to prove
  how
  “right” you are on a point. If you bring up an interesting point or
  question, everyone reads it, and can decide for themselves if it was
  answered or not, you don’t need to keep hammering on it. All that does is
  take the focus off of the topic, and focus it on the personalities. Maybe
  that is what you want??
  
  I do believe this person does just that. He is truly a person who looks to
  find some unarmed person with which to have a battle of wits. But, I’m
  really at a loss to figure what quality and quantifiable information he’s
  brought to the group. Since he first brought up this thing about amalgams
  being stable and safe I have yet to find any information that quantifies
  that proposition. From all that I’ve presented to Ira, and this group, about
  the subject of silver amalgam none of the information supports its being a
  safe product for over all good health……… Nothing!!
  Challenging questions are one thing but when they get to be like some that
  he’s presented I really question his motives. That is the reason I’ve sought
  to have him come forth and be forthright as to just what his agenda really
  is for being involved in this groups quest for gallbladder, liver and
  general health.
  Dale
  in your mouth is uncalibrated and therefore has no relevance to the
  science of metrology.<<
  (Please note: The tone of this post is not meant to sound irritated, but
  rather, concerned. Lack of voice or body language could make this easily
  misconstrued.)
  Um, Ira……. the tone here is beginning to sound more arrogant than
  intelligent. If you feel vindicated, or “right” by his lack of response to
  your question, maybe that makes you feel good. Maybe it makes you feel
  superior somehow, at least that is how it reads. Well, that’s your
  business, but as far as relevance is concerned, as interesting as parts of
  this thread have been, the folks who have been saying that it is not
  especially relevant to the purpose of the list have a point. I agree that
  people (though few) have said things to you that were not especially kind,
  but you seem to just not be happy until you have somehow insulted someone.
  You just do it a bit more covertly.
  Ira, I have really enjoyed many of your posts. I have come to your defense.
  I am beginning to think though, that you truly enjoy the actual sparring.
  It’s like some sort of duel, that you need to win. There is nothing wrong
  with enjoying that type of debate, and wanting to win, only it should be
  done in an arena where all parties agree that this is the purpose of the
  discussion. It is almost like a game, a competition.
  No one has to prove anything to you here. You do not have to prove how
  “right” you are on a point. If you bring up an interesting point or
  question, everyone reads it, and can decide for themselves if it was
  answered or not, you don’t need to keep hammering on it. All that does is
  take the focus off of the topic, and focus it on the personalities. Maybe
  that is what you want??
  I hope you continue to provide interesting information and challenging
  questions to the list, but I also hope you can lighten up a little. This
  isn’t a place for “winning.” On the other hand, if I were ever on a debate
  team, I would love to have you aboard.
  Debra :}

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