About gall stones

5 responses so far ↓

• 1 Morris Linnea // May 29, 2003 at 10:53 pm

  — In gallstones@egroups.com, “Dale Williams” <Da_Williams@e…
  WARNING: THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS ARE RATHER LONGISH
  Thanks for the feedback Dale.
  The reason I’m asking is because I’ve noticed there are a number
  of different variations of the flush out there.
  I’ve been reading about the gall bladder and wondering how the
  flush *could* work. Some, for example, claim that the olive oil
  serves to lubricate the gall bladder to help the stones slip
  effortlessly out. Others say drinking apple juice softens the stones
  before the flush.
  I’ve been rethinking my complete skepticism, largely because Dr.
  Hulda Clark recommends the procedure. Once, I used her parasite
  cleanse, thinking that parasites might be connected with my
  abdominal pain/lack of energy. Have you ever read web sites trying
  to get you to buy their parasite cleansing products? Man, by the
  
  time you’re finished, you’re so freaked out and convinced that your
  body is swimming with parasites, you’re ready to try just about
  anything! In the end, I opted to try Dr. Clark’s parasite cleansing program,
  which consisted of black walnut hulls, wormwood, and one other herb
  combined into a tea. After completing the program (the stuff tasted
  nasty, btw) my problems still persisted. I paid a visit to my
  naturopath and asked if he thought parasites might be the problem.
  He tested me for parasites, and when the results came back, he said
  it was the strangest thing he’d ever seen. I was the first person
  he’d ever seen that showed no traces of parasites - not even a hint.
  He said most people show at least some biproduct of parasites. I
  didn’t. I know Dr. Clark’s formula really worked.
  So, I have to sit up and take notice when she says something works.
  But… her version of the flush is the only one that makes some
  sense to me. I have friends who do not fast and do not use epsom
  salts. I believe people who use this version run the greatest risk
  of being fooled by fake stones, since all their really doing is
  sliding globs of olive oil down their gullet and into the commode,
  saponified by the passage.
  From what I’m gathering about the way the gallbladder and liver
  function in the digestive process, some of the aforementioned
  thoughts on how things are working during a flush just cannot be true.
  For example, here’s an exert from an article I found online about how
  things work:
  ANATOMY :
  The liver, which sits behind the lower ribs on the right side of
  the body, produces bile at a more or less constant rate. This bile
  moves through a series of collecting ducts, which join up to form
  the common bile duct. This duct leads to the small intestine. There
  are two side ducts to the common bile duct. The first one is called
  the cystic duct and leads to the gall bladder. The lower side-arm
  leads to the pancreas. Bile is required to help in the digestion of
  food, but as we do not eat constantly, it is not needed in the gut
  all the time. There is a valve at the lower end of the common bile
  duct where it opens into the intestine. This valve opens when food
  passes to allow bile to be added to the food in the gut. When the
  valve is closed, the bile must be stored, and this is where the
  gall bladder fits into the picture. It is a storage area for bile
  not immediately required, and the bile from the liver is directed
  into it when the valve is closed. When extra bile is required in
  the gut to digest food, the gall bladder contracts to squeeze the
  bile out through the open valve onto the food.
  The pancreas also produces enzymes which are useful in digestion.
  Now, armed with more knowledge, it seems unlikely that the purpose
  of the olive oil is to smooth the ride out of the gall bladder or
  liver — the olive oil never enters these organs.
  It also seems unlikely that apple juice is softening any stones prior
  to the attempted flush, since it too never directly enters either
  organ. If softening stones were that easy, we’d just all sit around
  and drink gallons of apple juice, right?
  So, if the flush works at all, it has to work as Dr. Clark suggests,
  for the reasons she suggests.
  When the large amounts of olive oil passes by the valve leading to
  the gall bladder, the gall bladder senses all the fat that needs to
  be dealt with and the gall bladder’s muscles contracts, squeezing
  the gall bladder’s content of bile out. When the gall bladder is
  empty, it realizes that the amount of bile it released still wasn’t
  enough to deal with all the fat, so signals the liver for more. The
  liver sends its own flood of bile to the gall bladder.
  It makes sense that olive oil could indeed cause the gall bladder
  and liver to react like that. It would seem, then, that a low/no fat
  diet for several days, as Dr. Clark suggest, would prove beneficial.
  That way, bile can fill the gall bladder to the full and provide
  much more of a torrent when released to flush things out. Not dieting
  in this way would seem to minimize the effect. I’m not so sure that
  three days, as she suggests, is really required for this diet though.
  But… she’s the doc.
  As far as drinking the apple juice and lemon juice, I’m wondering if
  the benefit of this is that it alkalyzes the blood, which may serve
  some purpose in reducing bile salts and perhaps melting some of the
  “glue” that binds stones into bigger, harder to flush, clumps. I
  believe this because, after drinking said beverages myself, I could
  feel things moving around in that region, providing temporary relief
  of pain. But, no stones have come out. Things did seem a bit looser
  however.
  If the epsom salt truly does dialate the tubules a bit, that too
  would seem to be a necessary inclusion for maximum effect.
  Now for the other side of the coin. Now that we know how the flush
  could in fact work, that raises some questions. Why olive oil?
  Since its only purpose seems to be to trigger the release of bile,
  why does olive oil seem to constantly be called upon to fit the bill?
  James Mally, N.D., wondered this in his comments when he said:
  “Maybe you could get harder ‘gallstones’ to flush using a more
  saturated oil…”
  I suspect that olive oil is the chosen weapon precisely because no
  matter what version of the flush you choose, you seem to come up
  with ’stones,’ since olive oil in particular may be most condusive
  to the formation of saponified stones. Don’t know that for a fact,
  just thinking out loud.
  Anyway, the above is nothing more than my own musings about the whole
  process. If you think a conclusion I’ve arrived at is flat wrong,
  please don’t hesitate to steer me in the right direction.
  In the end, I guess I agree with the three commenters I
  referenced in my very first post - that it’s possible that the flush
  *could* have some benefits. But I also think that some versions of
  the flush rely more heavily on saponified proof than providing the
  real mechanics for possible success.
  Assuming you’ve reached this far, what do ya’ll think?

• 2 cole_160 // May 30, 2003 at 4:36 am

  Hi Michael:
  My typical flush consists of 3-5 days of organic apple juice (ideally
  1/2 gallon a day. The day of the flush I drink my 1/2 gallon or more
  in the morning. By then things are already flushing!
  A very light lunch at 12.00
  Disodium phosphate at 2:00 and agin at 4:00 p.m.
  Fasting until 11:00 p.m. Then 1/2 to 3/4 cup organic extra virgin
  olive oil with a little lemon juice in the mix.
  Straight to bed, knee up on the right side for 20-30 minutes.
  Usually I go sound asleep until 6:00 a.m. All that comes out for the
  next 3-6 hours are clumps and stones… no digested food!
  Why apple juice? … I understand that the apple juice has a
  number of functions:
  1) Acts to stimulate the liver to spill bile! Yes, you don’t go
  running to the restroom constantly beacuse of the apple juice
  
  alone… Chemicals (god ones) in the juice cause the liver to spill
  bile and acts as a grea laxative to get everything moving.
  Most flushers feel a huge discomfort in the upper abdomin area when
  we drink a lot of apple juice. The first day I can feel my bile
  flowing out to the juice and it gives me a sick, uncomfortable
  feeling for 15-20 minutes until I run to the restroom and purge.
  Why organic aplle juice? Can you even imagine the concentration of
  pesticides and chemicals you will get if it is not organic!?
  2) Getting everything moving and cleaned out is essential for the
  flush to be effective. If the liver and gallbladder sense that
  things are backed up… they are smart enough not to send all they
  got as it will only cause further problems down the line.
  3) The olive oil doesn’t lubricate anything, it is as you surmise,
  the fat necessary for the gallbladder to erupt. Why not saturated
  fat????? Because some of us would die!!!! of a heart attack!!!
  Saturated fats not only would get the gallbladder to erupt, but also
  would immediately go to the heart by sludging up the blood. Many
  heart attacks come after fatty meals from sludgy blood… why do you
  think the say take an aspirin a day to keep the blood thinned?
  4) The liver and gb sense that all is clear and it is ok to give
  everything they got to digest the olive oil. Dale’s colonic seems to
  provide the same effect. It is quite possible that the olive oil
  gets up into the common duct and helps to lubricate it while the
  stones pass.
  5) Disodium phosphate or epsom salts clean out the body completely
  prior to the flush… perhaps the also help to expand the ducts.
  Friends of mine clain to have “grape sized” stones that come out.
  Doctor’s seem to believe that the largest stone that can pass is 1
  inch in diameter. That is still huge!
  I hope this is helpful… ken a.

• 3 Morris Linnea // May 30, 2003 at 2:39 pm

  Hi Robert,
  Oh, you’re right, of course. That’s certainly the best way to lay
  to rest any remaining skepticism on my part, isn’t it? I mean, the
  worst thing that could happen is that a stone gets lodged in one of
  the bile ducts and…. and I need to be rushed to the hospital and…
  oops, well…. let me think about this some more. Just kidding, of course. I know most people do the procedure with
  no incidents.

• 4 danuta100 // Jun 4, 2003 at 4:39 pm

  I have gall bladder attacks when I eat a high fat meal….
  I don’t have a gall bladder attack when I do a flush. Why?
  In the drinking of olive oil for a flush….and it triggering the release of
  bile (and stones?) from the gallbladder, why isn’t this inducing a gall
  bladder attack in those of us who have attacks when we eat a high fat meal,
  which triggers the gall bladder to release bile, which triggers the
  attack….Why not an attack when we do the flush????

• 5 cole_160 // Jun 4, 2003 at 6:43 pm

  Ditto all that Dale has said above concerning why Olive oil in a
  flush does not cause painful attacks like fatty foods do.
  The liver and gb knows what types of fats we are putting in our
  bodies. When we put greasy, fatty, fried types of foods into the
  engine, the liver understands that it must work 1000% faster and
  harder to help digest this garbage before it gets too far down the
  digestive tract where it will cause other problems if undigested.
  Olive oil will not cause the same problems in the digestive tract if
  it remains undigested all the way through. So the liver and gb go
  after it differently than fried or fatty foods.
  Also, during a flush the composition of the Bile has been changed by
  the drinking of the apple juice. Just as a fruit diet will keep the
  bile from clumping in the gb, so much more will huge amounts of apple
  juice. Last week I posted a notice where a researcher believes that
  you could eat a hamburger with apple juice and have NO effects from
  
  the fat as the phytonutrients in the apple juice oxidizes the fat.
  This may be a stretch, but if oxidation is required to keep the heart
  from clogging with cholestorol, it makes sense that it does the same
  for the liver and gb.
  I believe that God made our wonderful bodies, and they are much more
  sophiticated than we can even imagine. We still do not understand
  exactly how the body recognizes the difference between the garbage we
  eat and the good things we eat, but it does give us some significant
  hints when we eat poorly. Pain is our friend and teacher as it tells
  us what the body needs to be healthy. Masking the pain with drugs
  and antacids over the long term will only lead to destruction.
  Fortunately, the Lord also gave our bodies an unbelievable ability to
  heal themselves, IF we put in the right fuel and take proper care of
  body and mind.
  ken

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